CAMELOT FANTASIES

Quote from: thetruth on November 01, 2014, 01:39:07 am

I agree about Andy, but Djokovic doesn't belong in that same sentence. His graciousness ends the moment the moment he shakes hands with his opponent. I have been watching Nole since he came on tour as well, and this is not the same champion that I've witnessed in the past. Ripping your shirt and bellowing like a lion does not come under class champion. Which is probably what I find most irksome about him as a whole. Who is he? One never knows from one minute to the next. What I can say about all of the other players is that this is how we came to know them. Rafa didn't start kicking and jumping up in celebration after he won a good number of slams. It's how we came to know him, so at that point I was able to make a decision. With Nole, I have no idea who he is from one tournament to the next. I guess he has too many personalities for me.

And, before he started winning majors he was always proclaiming how he, Rafa, and Andy were such great friends, but the moment he started winning he went on record saying how he couldn't possibly be friends with rivals. What? I can't get with people like that, because one of those statements are true, they can't both be true because they're contradictory.

Andy berating himself? I don't understand why people even bring that up. Who cares how someone internalizes their feelings? Andy, Rafa, Federer, or Novak have nothing to do with Pete. They're all unique individuals and each are allowed their space to be themselves. That's what makes sense; not that one should parrot the other. Individuality is a great thing in my book. I expect some to be flamboyant, stoic, ecstatic, etc. Variety is the spice of life.

Anyway, Nole isn't doing it so much anymore because many people didn't find it appealing and he has toned it down considerably. Good for him. It's the Jekyll and Hyde effect that I can't get with.

I've never seen any player behave this way. Ever.

The stuff Nadal used to wear (the cocky and apparent show off of masculinity) and some of his past celebrations have always put me off but I very rarely talk about these things. In fact, Federer and Nadal's finger waving is also something I brought up last night for the first time. I also don't read top player's post match transcripts to find out all the flaws about their opponents. These are all too insignificant for me to waste my time on it. However I only mentioned it because it was relevant to what herc was originally talking about yesterday.

I, for one, see nothing wrong with Nole's statement. He's never meant it to be disrespectful to his opponents. He didn't want to hang out with the likes of Andy, Rafa etc. since it's a very competitive sports and these top guys have to deal with each other quite often in the big stage of things, so it's not an ideal scenario at all for any of them. If anything, Nole was being very honest about his feelings. Even Eugene Bouchard has recently stated that she could no longer be friends with the British player Laura Robson stating the same reason. In the past, both I and some of Murray fans have agreed that Andy should not at all hang out with Nole and Rafa. Because he is so chummy with Nadal and Nole that he is unable to his best competitive nature against them and it's costing him big time. Nole did what he had to do and it was absolutely crucial for him and it paid off.

Nole has toned it down not because 'people' don't like it anymore but because it's no longer necessary (just like Nadal didn't do it as much after a few wins). He has already established the fact that he is just as good as Federer and Nadal and is now the best player in the world. He did that initially to state that he has arrived in the big picture in his cocky way. Nadal did the same after 2008.

And please don't tell me if I am entitled to like Andy's on-court behaviour or not. His on-court behaviour bothers me because it doesn't help him at all. He had lost it temporarily during Lendl season which had done him so good but now unfortunately, it has found its way back since Lendl departure. If he can't have handle on his behaviour thefore his emotion, he won't see much success in handling his game in time of need, because the situations require it. In fact, it demands it. Nole's behaviour is a prime example for this who happens to have the same type of game as Andy and yet, so much more successful than Andy. In the final stage, due to his this behaviour therefore, lack of confidence, Andy's unable to win against the top guys.

But I know deep down inside that had Nole had similar on-court behavioiur as Andy then the same fans would have found it very difficult to like it. It all comes down to who we like or dislike essentially for the agendas that we tend to carry. I strictly remember at T4U some Nadal fans really hating on Murray after he beat Nadal at the 2008 USO and 2010 AO, but now that Nadal has beaten him quite a few times since then, it's now water under he bridge. But Andy still has his fair share of Nadal fans who truly hate Andy. I've come across them at MTF in the past. In the end, it's all about carrying personal agendas because, ultimately, it's a competitive sport and anything that is of competitive nature is bound to have its nasty sides. Very rarely anyone watches the sport for the good reason there is.

If you are a big fan of Andy, as you say, then you would have supported Nole to win Paris, because Nole winning this tournament has the least negative affect on Andy's ranking that is the most crucial aspect of Andy's career right now. But I am sure both you and herc (as he too says he's a Murray fan) would want Nole to lose the tournament and I am fairly sure it has nothing to do with Nole's celebrations. When we are faced with the real truth, we often don't like it or look past it and that's the truth.

The stuff Nadal used to wear, the pirate pants are a part of the Spanish culture and what most of the players wear in that region of the world. Nike saw it, and decided to use it as a marketing ploy.

It’s OK if you don’t think Nole’s statement is disrespectful. I never said that it was, I said it was hypocritical. He said one thing before he started winning and a different thing when the winning began. What we view as disrespectful is in the eye of the beholder. My opinion differs. Everyone has reasons why they see things in a certain way and I respect that. I don’t think my opinion is any better than yours, but I also don’t think your opinion is any better than mine. I don't see that as a problem because I like differing opinions.

Bouchard? Please, her and Robson were best friends. Once she got Robson’s coach she announced that they were no longer friends; blindsiding Robson. Sounds like a nice girl. I guess I don’t like that particular brand of "honesty,” I don't see it as honesty, but duplicity. The notion of being competitive in order to reach the top doesn’t appeal to me, nor does it garner my respect. I don’t understand why you can’t compete on court and be a human being off it.

For whatever reason Nole thumped his chest, ripped his shirt, and bellowed like an idiot (IMO) is his perogative, but he also opened himself up to criticism and I choose to criticize him for it. However, I'm not mad at people who see it differently from. Freedom of expression and all. Anyway, I'm glad he did it because it was a turnoff to me and earned him the nicknames of DeJerk, and Djerkovic.

Don’t tell you? Fine, then don’t tell me about nationalism and rabid fanboyism, or how I should think. I am just as strong willed as you and I am not about to let anyone give me an opinion. Our thoughts are free and we are free to express them. Why do you get to express your opinions and chastise others and then get testy when someone responds to your behavior? 

Fans who hate a player for any reason have a mental problem. Hate is too strong to waste on a complete stranger. The trick is to not attach that to other fans based on your own mindset. Tennis is a sport and as such there will be wins and losses. Anyone who doesn’t understand that needs help.

“If you are a big fan of Andy, as you say, then you would have supported Nole to win Paris, because Nole winning this tournament has the least negative affect on Andy's ranking that is the most crucial aspect of Andy's career right now. But I am sure both you and herc (as he too says he's a Murray fan) would want Nole to lose the tournament and I am fairly sure it has nothing to do with Nole's celebrations. When we are faced with the real truth, we often don't like it or look past it and that's the truth.”


This is total BS! I don’t care who wins the tournament. Two of my favorite players are Rafa and Murray. Once they’re out of the tournament I no longer have any dogs in the fight. Why would I care if Nole won it or not? He’s not one of my favorites. He’s in the same category as Kei, Milos, and anyone else left. I don’t think about the impact of rankings, points, or any of that stuff as it pertains to players. I’m happy for whoever wins the tournament, because they earned it. Why should I care? What’s in it for me? Seriously? Whoever wins the tournament, ends up #1, wins the next major has zero effect on my life. I wish I would be sitting around caring about stats that I cannot control. That is ludicrous, and if I say I’m a fan of Andy’s; then I am. I don’t have to please or appease anyone. I may not be the type of fan that you are, because outside of being able to enjoy a competitive match for me, it all ends there.

Quote from: thetruth on November 01, 2014, 01:39:07 am

I agree about Andy, but Djokovic doesn't belong in that same sentence. His graciousness ends the moment the moment he shakes hands with his opponent. I have been watching Nole since he came on tour as well, and this is not the same champion that I've witnessed in the past. Ripping your shirt and bellowing like a lion does not come under class champion. Which is probably what I find most irksome about him as a whole. Who is he? One never knows from one minute to the next. What I can say about all of the other players is that this is how we came to know them. Rafa didn't start kicking and jumping up in celebration after he won a good number of slams. It's how we came to know him, so at that point I was able to make a decision. With Nole, I have no idea who he is from one tournament to the next. I guess he has too many personalities for me.

And, before he started winning majors he was always proclaiming how he, Rafa, and Andy were such great friends, but the moment he started winning he went on record saying how he couldn't possibly be friends with rivals. What? I can't get with people like that, because one of those statements are true, they can't both be true because they're contradictory.

Andy berating himself? I don't understand why people even bring that up. Who cares how someone internalizes their feelings? Andy, Rafa, Federer, or Novak have nothing to do with Pete. They're all unique individuals and each are allowed their space to be themselves. That's what makes sense; not that one should parrot the other. Individuality is a great thing in my book. I expect some to be flamboyant, stoic, ecstatic, etc. Variety is the spice of life.

Anyway, Nole isn't doing it so much anymore because many people didn't find it appealing and he has toned it down considerably. Good for him. It's the Jekyll and Hyde effect that I can't get with.

I've never seen any player behave this way. Ever.

That's Carlos Berlocq from Argentina btw.

Ha ha ha. You're turning this into something it isn't.

Last night I was listening to one of Steve Wilde's interviews (I think) and there he mentioned about a British journalist who wrote something not so flattering about Obama in his article and posted it on his Facebook and the next thing he knew, his article was deleted overnight and his account was banned the next day.

Facebook, Twitter etc. are all very controlled environments. That's why I have nothing to do with these fake stuff. Freedom of speech, land of freedom are all an illusion created by the Governments. In reality, they don't exist. Reality is, we all live in a very controlled society by the people in power. Like religion, they create fear in people to have a firm control over the mass.

Anyway, I am off to save some of my close friends from their misery. In other words, I am going out with friends. The day is cloudy and gloomy and on the cooler side, but this is what makes me appreciate a sunny, bright day - the sharp contrasts of things that makes the personal preferences to come out. 

Oh and daylight saving is upon us again as we change the time to 1 hour back tonight. Yay! Ha ha...but that reminds me, even time is an illusion created by man so that we can organize our lives on this planet.

That's fine that you feel that way. You're entitled. But, I am also entitled to feel the way that I feel. Why can't you understand that? I'm not mad if you feel that way. It doesn't change anything for me.

Congrats to nole and his fans.

That is his 600th match win.

He also becomes the first player to defend Bercy.

Staggering indeed Emma. Fascinating post.

We seem to have most freedom here so that could be a variable in the serial equation.

Americans are also able get their hands on deadly weapons fairly easily or so it appears

You've made a couple of very good points, herc because most of the victims in serial killings are girls/women and the crimes are strictly of sexual nature first - the killing comes second. These serial killers - they enjoy both acts greatly. In fact, one serial killer went on to say and I quote, 'lock me up because all I think about is killing and if you let me go, I will continue to kill'.

Anyway, Girls have too much freedom to the point that they ignore any warnings and end up payin the price later. I love my freedom too but I am very cautious about how I move, where I go and who I hang out with to stay out of trouble. A lot of us just forget or just plain naive that we still live in a very animalistic society where consciousness hasn't developed yet. There are still people who have absolutely no remorse or whatsoever even in most developed countries like US, UK, Australia etc.

I love India but unfortunately women are abused there the most than any other country in the world and it's not by any particular religion but by all. 

If we don't acknowledge these traits and trends then we won't be able to do anything about it.

Quote from: Emma on November 01, 2014, 11:12:06 am

That's Carlos Berlocq from Argentina btw.

Ha ha ha. You're turning this into something it isn't.

No, just making a valid point to your blanket and ignorant not to mention, biased comment about Nole.

I clearly said "leads me to believe," which is not a definitive statement. I would have never said that because knowing that I don't know all aspects of their culture alerts me that I cannot without a doubt accept things that I know not of. You misunderstood.

There's nothing wrong with what you said; however, if I see it's misleading then I have no reason to stay quite about it.

herc can like any series of players from any country and I have no problems with that but I am careful about misleading information and if I see fit, I will let that know. People read forums and I want them to read something that is true to reality and not some random take of things. We are both entitled.

The stuff Nadal used to wear, the pirate pants are a part of the Spanish culture and what most of the players wear in that region of the world. Nike saw it, and decided to use it as a marketing ploy.

It’s OK if you don’t think Nole’s statement is disrespectful. I never said that it was, I said it was hypocritical. He said one thing before he started winning and a different thing when the winning began. What we view as disrespectful is in the eye of the beholder. My opinion differs. Everyone has reasons why they see things in a certain way and I respect that. I don’t think my opinion is any better than yours, but I also don’t think your opinion is any better than mine. I don't see that as a problem because I like differing opinions.

Bouchard? Please, her and Robson were best friends. Once she got Robson’s coach she announced that they were no longer friends; blindsiding Robson. Sounds like a nice girl. I guess I don’t like that particular brand of "honesty,” I don't see it as honesty, but duplicity. The notion of being competitive in order to reach the top doesn’t appeal to me, nor does it garner my respect. I don’t understand why you can’t compete on court and be a human being off it.

For whatever reason Nole thumped his chest, ripped his shirt, and bellowed like an idiot (IMO) is his perogative, but he also opened himself up to criticism and I choose to criticize him for it. However, I'm not mad at people who see it differently from. Freedom of expression and all. Anyway, I'm glad he did it because it was a turnoff to me and earned him the nicknames of DeJerk, and Djerkovic.

Don’t tell you? Fine, then don’t tell me about nationalism and rabid fanboyism, or how I should think. I am just as strong willed as you and I am not about to let anyone give me an opinion. Our thoughts are free and we are free to express them. Why do you get to express your opinions and chastise others and then get testy when someone responds to your behavior? 

Fans who hate a player for any reason have a mental problem. Hate is too strong to waste on a complete stranger. The trick is to not attach that to other fans based on your own mindset. Tennis is a sport and as such there will be wins and losses. Anyone who doesn’t understand that needs help.

“If you are a big fan of Andy, as you say, then you would have supported Nole to win Paris, because Nole winning this tournament has the least negative affect on Andy's ranking that is the most crucial aspect of Andy's career right now. But I am sure both you and herc (as he too says he's a Murray fan) would want Nole to lose the tournament and I am fairly sure it has nothing to do with Nole's celebrations. When we are faced with the real truth, we often don't like it or look past it and that's the truth.”


This is total BS! I don’t care who wins the tournament. Two of my favorite players are Rafa and Murray. Once they’re out of the tournament I no longer have any dogs in the fight. Why would I care if Nole won it or not? He’s not one of my favorites. He’s in the same category as Kei, Milos, and anyone else left. I don’t think about the impact of rankings, points, or any of that stuff as it pertains to players. I’m happy for whoever wins the tournament, because they earned it. Why should I care? What’s in it for me? Seriously? Whoever wins the tournament, ends up #1, wins the next major has zero effect on my life. I wish I would be sitting around caring about stats that I cannot control. That is ludicrous, and if I say I’m a fan of Andy’s; then I am. I don’t have to please or appease anyone. I may not be the type of fan that you are, because outside of being able to enjoy a competitive match for me, it all ends there.

But why do you want to decide things for Nole as to how he should be before and after? How he should behave after a win? Why must everything be to your liking? Who are you to him? It's not a crime if he feels differently about things now? It's not illegal to celebrate the way he wants to celebrate? You don't want to please anyone but then why should anyone  please you? It's his life and HE gets to decide how he is going to interact with others. And the way he sees it fit. And I am not a fan of Bouchard by any means but I am not holding that against her. That was to merely show you a point. You can continue to dislike Nole for whatever reason but you can't question his way of doing things, especially when it's doing no harm to others. That's the objective here not to mention, the main point.

I wish though things were that simple with you but unfortunately, they are not. You do care who won Paris because you did express your feelings about it on the Paris thread. Here's what you wrote: "Watching the end of the Ferrer/Nishikori match and hoping that Kei pulls it out. He'll give Novak more to think about, whereas Ferrer will fold at the sight of most players with a #1 next to their name. Come Kei!!!". You obviously cared enough to post that. It's no hidden gem as to who you wanted to win in the end and for whatever reasons. 

All those things I've highlighted to show you a point that you truly dislike Nole (and it has very little to do with his celebration) because you went on to even post some really stupid nicknames perhaps given by fans (Nadal fans I bet) who too hate him. And then quite ironically you state that fans who hate a player for no reason has a mental problem. Now who's hating who? All I see is you hating on Nole in the name of his celebrations. I brought Nadal up to give you a counter point. I brought Nadal's choice of wardrobe up for the same reason. I had no other intention.  It's a put off yes, but in the end, I don't care - I don't talk about it on a regular basis (or ever) nor do I have any genuine problems with his way of celebrations. As to nicknames, are you completely oblivious to the fact that Nadal too have notorious nicknames given by his naysayers and a series of Nadal's own questionable doings have opened up the door for criticism to many as well? Yes, you are both entitled if you must call players by stupid names if it makes you happy, but this then becomes children's playground - a tit for tat game - with all the childish name callings.

Anyway, I grew up hearing one thing and that is, women can't let an argument go and they really and truly want to win all arguments, because they so desperately want to be right and they love to have the last words. And I never wanted to be that woman so this is my last post on this but you have the floor. You are free to post whatever you like and wherever you like but on this matter, I am going to tune you out because otherwise this will continue, so I want to wise up and leave things at that. And whether you like Nole or not makes no difference in my life either; in fact, in sports it's quite legitimate but that doesn't mean I am going to buy everything I see or read that's on the superficial level.